1 00:00:04,490 --> 00:00:01,730 hi everyone this is Martin Willis 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:04,500 welcome to podcast UFO to episode number 3 00:00:10,879 --> 00:00:07,890 21 with Travis Walton I was very honored 4 00:00:12,860 --> 00:00:10,889 to have Travis on as a guest a man of 5 00:00:13,970 --> 00:00:12,870 total integrity if you'd like to follow 6 00:00:17,810 --> 00:00:13,980 us on Twitter 7 00:00:19,099 --> 00:00:17,820 that's twitter.com slash podcast UFO if 8 00:00:22,250 --> 00:00:19,109 you'd like to email me 9 00:00:24,769 --> 00:00:22,260 that's info at podcast UFO com 10 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:24,779 I think today's show is a very good one 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:45,540 I'm in Gorham Maine with Travis Walton 12 00:00:50,670 --> 00:00:48,010 how you doing Travis hi how you doing 13 00:00:53,190 --> 00:00:50,680 great thanks so much for I've been 14 00:00:55,710 --> 00:00:53,200 wanting to have you on this show and I 15 00:00:57,870 --> 00:00:55,720 am absolutely thrilled because I was 16 00:00:59,850 --> 00:00:57,880 speaking with Kathleen Martin who's in 17 00:01:02,490 --> 00:00:59,860 an earlier podcast and seeing the two 18 00:01:05,460 --> 00:01:02,500 most documented cases that I know of 19 00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:05,470 your case and also Betty and Barney Hill 20 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:07,990 so I'm absolutely thrilled to have met 21 00:01:13,010 --> 00:01:10,030 you here today you've told your story 22 00:01:16,620 --> 00:01:13,020 would you guess probably 10,000 times Oh 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:16,630 many many times I have an estimate at 24 00:01:22,350 --> 00:01:20,170 all but and so long yeah so we're going 25 00:01:25,910 --> 00:01:22,360 all the way back to was that November 26 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:25,920 5th 1975 it was a Wednesday November 5th 27 00:01:33,780 --> 00:01:31,330 1975 yeah and I am sure that 99% of the 28 00:01:37,950 --> 00:01:33,790 listeners that listen to my show know 29 00:01:39,990 --> 00:01:37,960 your story but if just I am listened to 30 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:40,000 all over the world now I can see that 31 00:01:45,660 --> 00:01:43,330 through the analytics of my site so if 32 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:45,670 you can just give a really quick recap 33 00:01:50,550 --> 00:01:47,770 for the person who perhaps that doesn't 34 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:50,560 know your story November 1975 I was 35 00:01:56,580 --> 00:01:52,690 working in the woods with a group of six 36 00:01:59,760 --> 00:01:56,590 other men and I had at home at night we 37 00:02:02,820 --> 00:01:59,770 saw a glowing object hovering near the 38 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:02,830 road I got out to take a closer look I 39 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:05,650 was hit by a bolt of energy from that 40 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:10,209 craft and the rest of the crew took off 41 00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:13,690 in in fear and reported it to the 42 00:02:21,570 --> 00:02:18,060 sheriff and they were basically 43 00:02:26,850 --> 00:02:21,580 suspected of murdering me and making a 44 00:02:33,289 --> 00:02:26,860 cover story for why I was no longer 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:33,299 around and I regained consciousness on 46 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:39,010 on board the craft and it was very 47 00:02:46,979 --> 00:02:43,930 traumatic experience I was returned to 48 00:02:47,770 --> 00:02:46,989 the town nearest where it happened where 49 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:47,780 I could 50 00:02:53,770 --> 00:02:50,690 to go and get help and I called my 51 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:53,780 family and they came and got me and at 52 00:02:59,470 --> 00:02:55,810 that point it was just a matter of 53 00:03:02,949 --> 00:02:59,480 dealing with the reaction to the report 54 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:02,959 not just mine so it was worldwide news 55 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:06,530 by the time I was reading returned now 56 00:03:10,330 --> 00:03:08,930 and a total of course it's totally 57 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:10,340 changed your life and I've heard you say 58 00:03:15,940 --> 00:03:13,850 in other interviews that if you could do 59 00:03:17,410 --> 00:03:15,950 it all over again and that be AB minus 60 00:03:22,300 --> 00:03:17,420 factor in your life that's how you'd 61 00:03:26,380 --> 00:03:22,310 really like it yeah yeah I'd rather 62 00:03:29,199 --> 00:03:26,390 never happen but you know gonna go with 63 00:03:30,490 --> 00:03:29,209 the way things have fallen together and 64 00:03:33,940 --> 00:03:30,500 yes the way it is 65 00:03:37,090 --> 00:03:33,950 now how many lie-detector tests have 66 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:37,100 been taken that well back when this 67 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:40,010 first happened and the men were accused 68 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:42,890 of murdering me the president of the 69 00:03:46,990 --> 00:03:44,930 American polygraph Association said the 70 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:47,000 odds were a million to one of there 71 00:03:52,780 --> 00:03:49,610 being any kind of a mistake with that 72 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:52,790 many people all passing a test on a 73 00:03:59,530 --> 00:03:55,970 single issue now a since then there's 74 00:04:00,340 --> 00:03:59,540 been over 16 pass tests in regard to 75 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:00,350 this incident 76 00:04:07,539 --> 00:04:03,110 you know the crew and my family and 77 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:07,549 whatnot I've passed five different lie 78 00:04:13,150 --> 00:04:08,930 detector tests from three different 79 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:13,160 experts and so I don't know what the 80 00:04:17,289 --> 00:04:15,290 odds would be now with over 16 pass 81 00:04:19,659 --> 00:04:17,299 tests but it would be a lot more than a 82 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:19,669 million to one yeah yeah I want to ask 83 00:04:26,170 --> 00:04:23,090 you a couple questions when when the 84 00:04:27,940 --> 00:04:26,180 bolt hit you do you just all go blank 85 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:27,950 right then do you remember nothing I 86 00:04:34,210 --> 00:04:30,650 felt a sort of a numbing sort of a 87 00:04:36,610 --> 00:04:34,220 stunning shock and sort of an electrical 88 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:36,620 shock and blacked out so when you were 89 00:04:41,529 --> 00:04:38,930 tossed that 10 or 20 feet of whatever it 90 00:04:43,630 --> 00:04:41,539 was you were completely out at that 91 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:43,640 point yeah I was unconscious by the time 92 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:46,910 I hit the ground I was completely 93 00:04:52,510 --> 00:04:49,130 unaware of what happened after that now 94 00:04:56,409 --> 00:04:52,520 I heard you say that when you awoken in 95 00:04:58,690 --> 00:04:56,419 the craft that you you had a hard time 96 00:05:00,640 --> 00:04:58,700 breathing and I'm you know what the very 97 00:05:01,420 --> 00:05:00,650 first thing I think of this you know 98 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:01,430 whatever mix 99 00:05:07,660 --> 00:05:05,090 Durov oxygen or whatever that is in that 100 00:05:09,970 --> 00:05:07,670 craft is probably different from our 101 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:09,980 earth and our air and stuff like that do 102 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:10,970 you think that's why you're having a 103 00:05:15,490 --> 00:05:12,770 hard time breathing that's probably the 104 00:05:18,430 --> 00:05:15,500 most likely explanation although I did 105 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:18,440 consider that being hit by the beam in 106 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:20,570 the head and chest may have caused some 107 00:05:25,450 --> 00:05:23,570 sort of injury that added to that 108 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:25,460 problem could have been part of it or 109 00:05:33,430 --> 00:05:30,650 maybe all of it but very likely just the 110 00:05:37,330 --> 00:05:33,440 wrong atmosphere for Ferryman's yeah and 111 00:05:41,740 --> 00:05:37,340 then the creatures that first approached 112 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:41,750 you you there was no real communication 113 00:05:45,730 --> 00:05:43,370 there but I remember you saying 114 00:05:47,650 --> 00:05:45,740 something about you saw they had irises 115 00:05:49,630 --> 00:05:47,660 they have large eyes can you kind of 116 00:05:51,430 --> 00:05:49,640 describe what well yeah they had very 117 00:05:57,010 --> 00:05:51,440 large eyes and you know I found their 118 00:06:00,160 --> 00:05:57,020 stare extremely difficult to bear and in 119 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:00,170 recent years I've come to suspicion that 120 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:03,050 what that was the reason for that was 121 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:06,530 that they were trying to reassert 122 00:06:12,610 --> 00:06:10,130 control over me that they were that 123 00:06:13,990 --> 00:06:12,620 feeling that they were boring into me or 124 00:06:17,290 --> 00:06:14,000 that there was some kind of invasive 125 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:17,300 quality to their stare I had to do with 126 00:06:22,750 --> 00:06:21,290 them trying to calm me down and get me 127 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:22,760 to quit making these threatening 128 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:28,490 gestures but it's the only thing I can 129 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:31,910 explain why it was just so disturbing 130 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:36,170 that their stare the that that was the 131 00:06:39,970 --> 00:06:38,090 main feature of my nightmares for some 132 00:06:42,220 --> 00:06:39,980 time after that I was gonna ask you 133 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:42,230 about nightmares do you still have them 134 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:44,810 at this point well I don't remember 135 00:06:49,390 --> 00:06:46,970 having them it may be that they're 136 00:06:52,270 --> 00:06:49,400 buried so that when I do have those 137 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:52,280 dreams of that nature that I wake up and 138 00:06:55,629 --> 00:06:53,120 I don't remember 139 00:06:59,350 --> 00:06:55,639 anymore but hey that or I'm not having 140 00:07:01,689 --> 00:06:59,360 them do recall I'd like to talk a little 141 00:07:05,110 --> 00:07:01,699 bit about the craft experience if I 142 00:07:07,270 --> 00:07:05,120 could because that's so unique compared 143 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:07,280 to what I would consider most most 144 00:07:09,790 --> 00:07:08,930 people who claim to have this type of 145 00:07:12,210 --> 00:07:09,800 situation 146 00:07:15,070 --> 00:07:12,220 were there any smells that you recall 147 00:07:17,170 --> 00:07:15,080 well you know again my injuries might 148 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:17,180 have interfered with my sense of smell 149 00:07:25,060 --> 00:07:19,130 which is not all that keen to start with 150 00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:25,070 but it did seem stale and humid and you 151 00:07:31,689 --> 00:07:30,080 know really kind of muggy but again that 152 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:31,699 might have been because the atmosphere 153 00:07:36,189 --> 00:07:35,570 wasn't right in the the walls and things 154 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:36,199 like that 155 00:07:43,350 --> 00:07:39,050 how can you describe it was very 156 00:07:46,510 --> 00:07:43,360 geometric and very mechanical and very 157 00:07:50,159 --> 00:07:46,520 clean and sterile looking as opposed to 158 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:50,169 the look in the movie which was very 159 00:07:58,089 --> 00:07:53,810 organic and rather cluttered right right 160 00:08:02,170 --> 00:07:58,099 now and the the human like person that 161 00:08:06,070 --> 00:08:02,180 approached you with a helmet a mask on 162 00:08:08,860 --> 00:08:06,080 or something that didn't speak and then 163 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:08,870 brought you to an area where you saw 164 00:08:12,879 --> 00:08:11,330 other crafts almost like a hang or of 165 00:08:15,129 --> 00:08:12,889 something yeah he took me outside of the 166 00:08:18,150 --> 00:08:15,139 craft which you know I don't know if the 167 00:08:22,210 --> 00:08:18,160 the craft that I walk in was always 168 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:22,220 during that time inside of this hangar 169 00:08:29,610 --> 00:08:27,050 like area this large room but there were 170 00:08:34,290 --> 00:08:29,620 other craft in there disc-shaped craft 171 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:34,300 but they were more rounded and a shinier 172 00:08:40,779 --> 00:08:39,289 than the one I came out of no I can't 173 00:08:43,149 --> 00:08:40,789 even imagine what was going through your 174 00:08:46,449 --> 00:08:43,159 head at this time and when you were 175 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:46,459 experiencing all this like I would think 176 00:08:51,970 --> 00:08:49,610 that I would feel that there's no way 177 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:51,980 I'm ever gonna get home I'm done for I'm 178 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:54,170 you know yeah it was so of definitely a 179 00:08:59,490 --> 00:08:56,410 feeling of being lost 180 00:09:01,410 --> 00:08:59,500 and a very desperate sort of hopeless 181 00:09:02,460 --> 00:09:01,420 feeling about you know would I be 182 00:09:07,139 --> 00:09:02,470 returned 183 00:09:10,259 --> 00:09:07,149 was there some bigger threat yet to yet 184 00:09:13,079 --> 00:09:10,269 to you know become a parent mm-hmm but 185 00:09:16,829 --> 00:09:13,089 this this experience aboard the craft or 186 00:09:20,490 --> 00:09:16,839 whatever it was seemed in your mind like 187 00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:20,500 it lasted a fairly short time yeah 188 00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:23,230 certainly nothing like the five days in 189 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:26,470 six hours that I was missing hmm what 190 00:09:34,110 --> 00:09:29,110 was sure when you you finally woke up 191 00:09:36,509 --> 00:09:34,120 and to familiar surroundings what was 192 00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:36,519 your your thought on how long you've 193 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:38,470 been gone approximately you thought it 194 00:09:42,540 --> 00:09:39,850 was the night yeah I thought it was 195 00:09:45,780 --> 00:09:42,550 still the same night you know and it was 196 00:09:48,749 --> 00:09:45,790 only after some kind of an exchange with 197 00:09:52,889 --> 00:09:48,759 my brother about in all that had been 198 00:09:54,449 --> 00:09:52,899 going on that I you know my brother's he 199 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:54,459 realized that I thought it was the same 200 00:09:58,590 --> 00:09:56,170 night she used to feel your face you've 201 00:10:01,350 --> 00:09:58,600 been gone for five days and I felt a 202 00:10:04,939 --> 00:10:01,360 growth of beard and oh then I look at my 203 00:10:08,009 --> 00:10:04,949 watch and it had changed the date and so 204 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:08,019 that was kind of an extra shock for some 205 00:10:15,179 --> 00:10:11,290 reason that really just um kind of 206 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:15,189 finished me off oh yeah I don't want to 207 00:10:20,910 --> 00:10:18,970 jump ahead too far but for the the 208 00:10:24,090 --> 00:10:20,920 immediate time I know you went to 209 00:10:27,179 --> 00:10:24,100 Phoenix to a hospital there to be tested 210 00:10:29,999 --> 00:10:27,189 or whatever but was the media like right 211 00:10:32,910 --> 00:10:30,009 on you from that point out yeah there 212 00:10:36,449 --> 00:10:32,920 was intense and media scrutiny you know 213 00:10:40,079 --> 00:10:36,459 one of the crewmen Steve Pierce relates 214 00:10:42,090 --> 00:10:40,089 to the story of waking up to find news 215 00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:42,100 photographers trying to take his picture 216 00:10:49,769 --> 00:10:46,000 through his bedroom window and you know 217 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:49,779 my mom's having her flower bed trampled 218 00:10:57,059 --> 00:10:51,850 by people trying to take pictures to her 219 00:11:02,160 --> 00:10:57,069 have front window and so it they were 220 00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:02,170 honest you know when I went to get my 221 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:04,000 brainwave scan 222 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:08,050 I was put in there by the doctor under 223 00:11:13,710 --> 00:11:11,290 an assumed name but still coming out to 224 00:11:15,870 --> 00:11:13,720 the car somebody yelled there he is 225 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:15,880 and they actually chased us through 226 00:11:23,310 --> 00:11:18,850 traffic so it was a really a crazy time 227 00:11:27,870 --> 00:11:23,320 and seemed like everybody was really 228 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:27,880 keen on the whole issue mm-hmm 229 00:11:32,430 --> 00:11:30,370 now before any of this ever happened had 230 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:32,440 you what was your thoughts about UFOs 231 00:11:37,140 --> 00:11:35,410 and things well I I you know definitely 232 00:11:40,950 --> 00:11:37,150 considered that this was a reality 233 00:11:43,470 --> 00:11:40,960 because my brother had seen something 234 00:11:47,730 --> 00:11:43,480 about eight or ten years before a fairly 235 00:11:49,830 --> 00:11:47,740 close range and you know so it was it 236 00:11:55,470 --> 00:11:49,840 was definitely something I thought was 237 00:11:58,620 --> 00:11:55,480 probably real and you know it wasn't a 238 00:12:00,540 --> 00:11:58,630 like a hobby of mine or an obsession any 239 00:12:03,150 --> 00:12:00,550 sort of way because you know I was 240 00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:03,160 interested in a wide variety of subjects 241 00:12:10,110 --> 00:12:07,120 and you know that was one of the topics 242 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:10,120 of the day and back then and many many 243 00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:12,610 subjects now when you cut out of the 244 00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:16,480 truck what what possessed you to I can't 245 00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:18,400 imagine if I saw something like that 246 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:20,320 getting out was it to kind of show off a 247 00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:22,450 little brazen it was a little bit of a 248 00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:24,640 show-off element to it there I have to 249 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:28,870 confess but you know both Steve and Alan 250 00:12:34,350 --> 00:12:30,970 both that says to them it looked like I 251 00:12:37,230 --> 00:12:34,360 was in some kind of a trance but I guess 252 00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:37,240 if I was mesmerised it would have been 253 00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:40,000 in the sense that you know I was 254 00:12:45,810 --> 00:12:43,360 beholding this incredibly powerful sight 255 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:45,820 it was just so overwhelming that you 256 00:12:53,230 --> 00:12:47,770 know the reality of this situation in 257 00:12:59,919 --> 00:12:55,150 you know the strangeness of it was just 258 00:13:03,340 --> 00:12:59,929 so dazzling I recently saw chasing UFOs 259 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:03,350 National Geographic and and I also heard 260 00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:05,929 you talk about this the growth rings in 261 00:13:10,269 --> 00:13:08,959 the the trees has anyone taken a 262 00:13:13,509 --> 00:13:10,279 scientific look at that 263 00:13:15,730 --> 00:13:13,519 well samples were sent to a lab and 264 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:15,740 getting ready to take some more samples 265 00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:19,490 to send to a lab maybe more than one and 266 00:13:22,869 --> 00:13:20,959 it's got to be some follow up on this 267 00:13:25,540 --> 00:13:22,879 National Geographic was supposed to do 268 00:13:28,059 --> 00:13:25,550 that and they took samples but to my 269 00:13:30,189 --> 00:13:28,069 knowledge none of that went very far so 270 00:13:34,059 --> 00:13:30,199 that whole show was quite a 271 00:13:37,749 --> 00:13:34,069 disappointment I anticipated with 272 00:13:40,540 --> 00:13:37,759 national Geographics great reputation 273 00:13:43,749 --> 00:13:40,550 for some really good documentary and 274 00:13:46,210 --> 00:13:43,759 scientific reporting that a terrible job 275 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:46,220 with that show and it just really 276 00:13:50,530 --> 00:13:48,290 botched it they actually flew a 277 00:13:52,030 --> 00:13:50,540 scientist in there that was there for 278 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:52,040 the purpose of looking at those samples 279 00:13:59,109 --> 00:13:56,569 and she was never even know just 280 00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:59,119 basically cut out of the show Wow 281 00:14:03,850 --> 00:14:01,040 so they wasted a whole lot of time 282 00:14:06,970 --> 00:14:03,860 showing them driving to the site and 283 00:14:08,859 --> 00:14:06,980 talking in the car on the way and still 284 00:14:10,539 --> 00:14:08,869 trying to make it the total reality and 285 00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:10,549 then some kind of night vision stuff 286 00:14:16,419 --> 00:14:13,790 what was that about I think that's to me 287 00:14:19,329 --> 00:14:16,429 that's kind of the most disappointing 288 00:14:23,019 --> 00:14:19,339 part of that show I tried to talk with 289 00:14:25,869 --> 00:14:23,029 James Fox on this podcast I haven't 290 00:14:28,059 --> 00:14:25,879 heard back from him but that night 291 00:14:31,650 --> 00:14:28,069 vision thing with the camera facing the 292 00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:31,660 people as I'm walking along it's kind of 293 00:14:36,429 --> 00:14:34,399 well in my opinion kind of hokey you 294 00:14:38,169 --> 00:14:36,439 know a little bit so what are they 295 00:14:39,699 --> 00:14:38,179 looking at why are we supposed to 296 00:14:41,379 --> 00:14:39,709 impress that they're looking out they're 297 00:14:43,119 --> 00:14:41,389 scared if you're never gonna turn the 298 00:14:45,009 --> 00:14:43,129 camera the other direction and not only 299 00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:45,019 that it's like for someone to actually 300 00:14:50,289 --> 00:14:48,649 experience a sighting is so rare you 301 00:14:52,299 --> 00:14:50,299 know I mean chasing UFOs I mean the 302 00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:52,309 title works well on everything but I 303 00:14:56,559 --> 00:14:54,470 mean it's just that that whole part of 304 00:15:00,609 --> 00:14:56,569 it you know we can only look at the past 305 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:00,619 and be very very we would be very very 306 00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:03,410 lucky to have something happen that we 307 00:15:08,349 --> 00:15:03,889 could actually 308 00:15:09,789 --> 00:15:08,359 witness but you know so was that filming 309 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:09,799 all done in one day when you were in 310 00:15:14,859 --> 00:15:12,220 vogue no I spent three days with him 311 00:15:17,889 --> 00:15:14,869 there was more than one day of filming 312 00:15:21,069 --> 00:15:17,899 and it was a lot of time wasted in my 313 00:15:23,379 --> 00:15:21,079 opinion because they just decided to 314 00:15:26,199 --> 00:15:23,389 disprove the whole thing and I don't 315 00:15:29,289 --> 00:15:26,209 think they had a serious I'm not not 316 00:15:29,889 --> 00:15:29,299 James Fox I really think he would be 317 00:15:34,239 --> 00:15:29,899 solved 318 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:34,249 yeah I think he was as disappointed as I 319 00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:35,569 was I've heard that through the 320 00:15:40,419 --> 00:15:38,929 grapevine that he he definitely had the 321 00:15:42,039 --> 00:15:40,429 idea it was gonna be a lot better than 322 00:15:44,769 --> 00:15:42,049 it was on it I know he didn't have any 323 00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:44,779 control over content or editing so yeah 324 00:15:49,479 --> 00:15:46,910 that's where everything can change as 325 00:15:53,619 --> 00:15:49,489 well yeah vastly him people don't 326 00:15:55,929 --> 00:15:53,629 realize just how much editing can alter 327 00:15:58,090 --> 00:15:55,939 what a person does or says yeah I know 328 00:15:59,349 --> 00:15:58,100 you've said in the past that there are 329 00:16:01,569 --> 00:15:59,359 times that you just don't want to talk 330 00:16:04,449 --> 00:16:01,579 about this and were there like many 331 00:16:06,189 --> 00:16:04,459 years have gone by I think this sort of 332 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:06,199 in a way gives you even more credibility 333 00:16:09,999 --> 00:16:07,850 because anyone who experiences something 334 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:10,009 traumatic is gonna want to shut it out 335 00:16:14,650 --> 00:16:12,980 for a while and maybe revisit it have a 336 00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:14,660 there've been long stretches where you 337 00:16:18,009 --> 00:16:15,769 just didn't want to talk to anything 338 00:16:20,109 --> 00:16:18,019 yeah there was definitely long stretches 339 00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:20,119 of time where I didn't want to talk 340 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:22,720 about it and turned down interviews and 341 00:16:27,549 --> 00:16:25,850 parents requests and whatnot but then 342 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:27,559 you know something would provoke me 343 00:16:33,729 --> 00:16:31,610 maybe some of the more outrageous things 344 00:16:36,729 --> 00:16:33,739 that people make up sometimes people 345 00:16:38,530 --> 00:16:36,739 will say things to get their little 15 346 00:16:40,479 --> 00:16:38,540 minutes of fame on the Internet and and 347 00:16:42,850 --> 00:16:40,489 just make up stuff and it's just so 348 00:16:47,229 --> 00:16:42,860 outrageous and so easily disproven as 349 00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:47,239 false that I get provoked into rejoining 350 00:16:51,159 --> 00:16:48,529 the battle so to speak 351 00:16:53,769 --> 00:16:51,169 can you give an example well there was a 352 00:16:56,109 --> 00:16:53,779 guy that came on there a while back and 353 00:16:58,359 --> 00:16:56,119 said claiming that he was the sheriff's 354 00:17:02,439 --> 00:16:58,369 nephew and he had the inside story on it 355 00:17:04,569 --> 00:17:02,449 all and well you know it was just one 356 00:17:07,539 --> 00:17:04,579 thing after another that you know even 357 00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:07,549 the people on the website that he was 358 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:09,260 talking to jumped his case and said well 359 00:17:12,110 --> 00:17:10,850 that can't be because of this and that's 360 00:17:13,790 --> 00:17:12,120 gonna you know 361 00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:13,800 yet as facts all wrong six ways from 362 00:17:20,510 --> 00:17:18,000 Sunday but for one thing it is sheriff 363 00:17:23,299 --> 00:17:20,520 that investigated the case was not his 364 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:23,309 uncle the uncle that he was claiming was 365 00:17:29,210 --> 00:17:26,730 the town marshal who had no real central 366 00:17:32,090 --> 00:17:29,220 role in the investigation but he was 367 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:32,100 they claimed that the crew met with the 368 00:17:38,270 --> 00:17:36,390 sheriff at the Red Robin diner and the 369 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:38,280 Red Robin diner didn't exist for another 370 00:17:43,790 --> 00:17:42,090 20 years after that and then so they 371 00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:43,800 jumped this case about that and he 372 00:17:50,060 --> 00:17:46,350 changed it to the red onion diner which 373 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:50,070 does exist in here but that too hadn't 374 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:53,610 didn't exist for another 20 years so you 375 00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,010 know he made all sorts of absurd claims 376 00:18:00,860 --> 00:17:58,080 that it was really an Air Force 377 00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:00,870 helicopter that chased the crew through 378 00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:03,980 the woods and that's silly too because 379 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:06,809 you know the blades would hit the trees 380 00:18:13,540 --> 00:18:11,130 yeah and who and could possibly mistake 381 00:18:16,910 --> 00:18:13,550 a low-flying helicopter for anything 382 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:16,920 with a distinctive sound and the wind 383 00:18:21,020 --> 00:18:19,410 blowing downward just point after point 384 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:21,030 after point you know it was just so easy 385 00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:23,070 to prove that he was you know just 386 00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:25,710 trying to get attention mm-hmm but it's 387 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:28,200 not the only one you know there's all 388 00:18:35,390 --> 00:18:30,000 sorts of people that come on there and 389 00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:35,400 make claims I'm sure the guy that James 390 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:38,360 Garner played in the movie his name's 391 00:18:45,169 --> 00:18:42,170 James Garner played sheriff waters I 392 00:18:47,540 --> 00:18:45,179 think was sheriff waters okay I want to 393 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:47,550 talk about sheriff waters if that's his 394 00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:51,090 name he was pretty arrogant and 395 00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:53,460 non-believing in the movie is that the 396 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:55,500 way he was in real life oh no III think 397 00:19:00,200 --> 00:18:57,690 he you know he was a very likable fellow 398 00:19:02,780 --> 00:19:00,210 and I do think he was much more 399 00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:02,790 believing in off-screen than no no he 400 00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:05,760 was very friendly and no he was a really 401 00:19:11,570 --> 00:19:09,120 a good guy oh okay that's so there was a 402 00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:11,580 lot of differences between what happened 403 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:14,910 and what was in the movie basically is 404 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:17,370 there anything that you like to always 405 00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:20,130 set straight that is that people might 406 00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:22,100 talk to you about how 407 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:24,110 and in real life that didn't happen in 408 00:19:33,070 --> 00:19:27,530 the movie well you know I think some of 409 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:33,080 the changes are understandable they 410 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:36,170 reduced the crew from seven to six and 411 00:19:42,340 --> 00:19:38,810 why was that I wonder it's just that 412 00:19:44,260 --> 00:19:42,350 they need to reduce the number of people 413 00:19:46,540 --> 00:19:44,270 for the audience to keep track of things 414 00:19:49,390 --> 00:19:46,550 yeah you know you got 90 minutes to tell 415 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:49,400 a story that spans years and you can't 416 00:19:52,660 --> 00:19:51,200 just keep throwing more and more and 417 00:19:54,250 --> 00:19:52,670 more and more characters at people and 418 00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:54,260 have them be able to keep track of it 419 00:19:59,260 --> 00:19:56,750 and so you know when they combine my 420 00:20:02,410 --> 00:19:59,270 brother dawn and Dwayne into one named 421 00:20:05,230 --> 00:20:02,420 Dan you know that's understandable for 422 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:05,240 from the purposes of telling the story 423 00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:09,110 in the overall impact that it had the 424 00:20:17,290 --> 00:20:11,360 things I don't agree with are things 425 00:20:20,020 --> 00:20:17,300 like the very great departure from 426 00:20:23,740 --> 00:20:20,030 reality that they made on events aboard 427 00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:23,750 the craft but it needs to be understood 428 00:20:36,340 --> 00:20:33,310 Tracy Torme who wrote the script fought 429 00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:36,350 hard to preserve the integrity of the 430 00:20:41,410 --> 00:20:39,320 story but it basically came down to they 431 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:41,420 wanted to make these changes or there 432 00:20:46,780 --> 00:20:42,770 was not going to be a movie 433 00:20:48,220 --> 00:20:46,790 so with faced with those choices he 434 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:48,230 opted to go ahead and have the movie 435 00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:51,250 made which I'm glad he did but you know 436 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:54,320 he like I would have you know if we'd 437 00:20:58,210 --> 00:20:55,610 had our druthers and it would have been 438 00:21:00,760 --> 00:20:58,220 a more accurate story maybe someday 439 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:00,770 they'll be a remake to tell it more 440 00:21:05,050 --> 00:21:02,930 accurately has anyone talked about that 441 00:21:06,910 --> 00:21:05,060 well there's certainly a huge amount of 442 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:06,920 demand for it I've got hundreds of 443 00:21:14,610 --> 00:21:11,210 emails that I will you know print out 444 00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:14,620 and bind and bring to a potential 445 00:21:20,110 --> 00:21:18,020 producer to demonstrate that there is a 446 00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:20,120 I mean I'm getting these emails from all 447 00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:22,880 over the world that people you know are 448 00:21:26,050 --> 00:21:24,110 aware of the book and they're aware of 449 00:21:27,670 --> 00:21:26,060 the movie they're fascinated but they 450 00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:27,680 would love to see a movie that told it 451 00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:28,809 the way it really happened 452 00:21:33,659 --> 00:21:32,080 you know I I lived sort of local in this 453 00:21:36,930 --> 00:21:33,669 area lived in New Hampshire when this 454 00:21:39,659 --> 00:21:36,940 happened but I do remember hearing about 455 00:21:42,899 --> 00:21:39,669 it you know in so it was all over the 456 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:42,909 world for a while is that right yes it 457 00:21:46,649 --> 00:21:45,129 was worldwide even by them before I was 458 00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:46,659 returned by the time I was returned 459 00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:49,320 there were camera crews in town from 460 00:21:59,639 --> 00:21:54,190 Japan and England and you know 461 00:22:02,840 --> 00:21:59,649 eventually the reporters and filmmakers 462 00:22:07,109 --> 00:22:02,850 from just about everywhere wound up 463 00:22:09,299 --> 00:22:07,119 coming to do the story owner now did you 464 00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:09,309 ever feel like you had to move away I 465 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:11,919 was tempted many times to move away from 466 00:22:17,549 --> 00:22:15,490 all the controversy and whatnot and you 467 00:22:19,739 --> 00:22:17,559 know in the in the movie it makes it 468 00:22:22,139 --> 00:22:19,749 look like the whole town was against us 469 00:22:25,730 --> 00:22:22,149 but it was actually worse than that in a 470 00:22:31,739 --> 00:22:25,740 sense because the town was divided and 471 00:22:33,539 --> 00:22:31,749 along family lines and you know the town 472 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:33,549 marshal didn't believe it but his 473 00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:36,730 brother town deputy I mean the County 474 00:22:45,629 --> 00:22:41,710 deputy was believing but his wife it was 475 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:45,639 not believing and his brother's wife was 476 00:22:51,090 --> 00:22:48,970 more believing so between brothers both 477 00:22:53,609 --> 00:22:51,100 in law enforcement and their wives there 478 00:22:57,570 --> 00:22:53,619 was a split four ways their own opinions 479 00:23:00,200 --> 00:22:57,580 and but over time things have gotten 480 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:00,210 better did you tell your experience of 481 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:04,210 the abduction part of it right away I 482 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:07,090 couldn't really get out I was so 483 00:23:11,369 --> 00:23:09,490 traumatized and every time I started to 484 00:23:13,619 --> 00:23:11,379 talk in detail about what happened that 485 00:23:15,779 --> 00:23:13,629 breakdown so it wasn't until the 486 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:15,789 hypnosis that I was finally able to 487 00:23:21,269 --> 00:23:18,610 relate in detail what had happened 488 00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:21,279 because the the whole technique there 489 00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:24,190 was to separate the fear from the memory 490 00:23:31,980 --> 00:23:27,940 I see and I know that the debunkers or 491 00:23:33,810 --> 00:23:31,990 skeptics have used that part of it 492 00:23:36,450 --> 00:23:33,820 saying that those memories were 493 00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:36,460 implanted well you know the the 494 00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:37,720 hypnotist 495 00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:42,760 hypnosis was witnessed by a number of 496 00:23:47,340 --> 00:23:44,550 other researchers including two 497 00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:47,350 psychologists psychiatrists Oh 498 00:23:53,790 --> 00:23:49,990 and they were they were of the opinion 499 00:23:59,370 --> 00:23:53,800 that they expressed that all the signs 500 00:24:04,260 --> 00:23:59,380 of genuine hypnosis were or in evidence 501 00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:04,270 there and there was no bad technique in 502 00:24:08,340 --> 00:24:06,340 terms of leading questions for planning 503 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:08,350 memories or anything like that there 504 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:10,930 were one thing you know little bits of 505 00:24:15,180 --> 00:24:13,690 it had come out prior to that and it was 506 00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:15,190 all in agreement without it's just that 507 00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:17,980 I couldn't you know continue into a 508 00:24:22,860 --> 00:24:20,080 continuous narrative of it because it 509 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:22,870 was just too much now I know that 510 00:24:28,650 --> 00:24:25,570 whenever I talk about certain traumatic 511 00:24:30,450 --> 00:24:28,660 experiences of my life that I get right 512 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:30,460 back there in my mind and it really 513 00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:32,770 affects me do you ever get emotional 514 00:24:37,710 --> 00:24:35,230 about any of this well yeah I said it 515 00:24:40,890 --> 00:24:37,720 definitely and from you know from years 516 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:40,900 after it happened when I talked about it 517 00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:43,330 it was reliving it to the extent where I 518 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:45,460 was going through you know a high 519 00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:47,410 percentage of the level of stress that I 520 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:49,240 had experienced when it happened and 521 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:53,050 even now to talk about it I have to go 522 00:24:59,250 --> 00:24:55,630 back there in my mind and relive it to a 523 00:25:01,740 --> 00:24:59,260 certain extent so it's taken in over 30 524 00:25:04,290 --> 00:25:01,750 years to desensitize me to the degree 525 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:04,300 that it has but it's still not easy to 526 00:25:11,310 --> 00:25:06,730 talk about and nothing bring up on my 527 00:25:14,330 --> 00:25:11,320 own yeah has this affected any type of 528 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:14,340 career of yours well obviously you know 529 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:17,290 having had this happen you know has 530 00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:19,930 affected me in many ways I can't begin 531 00:25:24,690 --> 00:25:22,750 to calculate you know jobs I might not 532 00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:24,700 have gotten you know sometimes people 533 00:25:32,210 --> 00:25:27,460 are specific about their reasons for 534 00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,220 things but you can sure surmise and 535 00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:34,720 obviously watching the kinds of tactics 536 00:25:42,060 --> 00:25:38,860 that are employed in political contests 537 00:25:44,820 --> 00:25:42,070 today you can definitely know that 538 00:25:45,690 --> 00:25:44,830 that's one thing that I can never do is 539 00:26:31,200 --> 00:25:45,700 a 540 00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:31,210 you know I I went on to other lines of 541 00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:34,950 work now have you been contacted by 542 00:26:40,830 --> 00:26:37,600 people at any given time that have seen 543 00:26:46,580 --> 00:26:40,840 sightings in the area however you say no 544 00:26:49,620 --> 00:26:46,590 the sheriff did um have in his file a 545 00:26:51,389 --> 00:26:49,630 number of reports from people who had 546 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:51,399 seen things in the area at that time 547 00:26:57,149 --> 00:26:54,970 I've also had people approach me that 548 00:26:59,100 --> 00:26:57,159 were in the area at that time and 549 00:27:04,409 --> 00:26:59,110 telling me about things that they had 550 00:27:06,330 --> 00:27:04,419 seen so someone coincided with my event 551 00:27:10,169 --> 00:27:06,340 and some of them were things that happen 552 00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:10,179 along in years later but quite a few you 553 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:11,769 know right about the time this happened 554 00:27:18,779 --> 00:27:15,370 I think I heard you say in a talk about 555 00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:18,789 a deer hunter that ended up being false 556 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:22,960 information he was giving well um yeah 557 00:27:27,779 --> 00:27:24,850 that's a long story but yeah there was a 558 00:27:29,669 --> 00:27:27,789 deer hunter who turned up you know it 559 00:27:31,620 --> 00:27:29,679 sounded like you know we had someone 560 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:31,630 that was in the vicinity at the time and 561 00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:33,730 saw the incident and everything but when 562 00:27:39,450 --> 00:27:35,679 he was probably aft it turned out yeah 563 00:27:41,730 --> 00:27:39,460 that was all true he was there and even 564 00:27:44,669 --> 00:27:41,740 that he was and military intelligence as 565 00:27:48,899 --> 00:27:44,679 he said however when he was questioned 566 00:27:51,210 --> 00:27:48,909 about having had contact with the the 567 00:27:53,580 --> 00:27:51,220 main skeptics and debunkers that were 568 00:27:56,129 --> 00:27:53,590 attacking the case he flunked a second 569 00:27:58,250 --> 00:27:56,139 test on those sorts of questions so it's 570 00:28:02,930 --> 00:27:58,260 a very curious sort of 571 00:28:05,450 --> 00:28:02,940 how someone could have been present a 572 00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,460 person in military intelligence standing 573 00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:07,679 nearby with a high-powered rifle in his 574 00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:14,700 hands and yet be trying to hide his 575 00:28:19,370 --> 00:28:16,980 relationship to the deep bunkers and the 576 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:19,380 skeptics oh so that was a very strange 577 00:28:25,010 --> 00:28:21,330 result it is yeah 578 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:25,020 another thing I also heard you say that 579 00:28:30,770 --> 00:28:27,210 there was or I believe I heard someone 580 00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:30,780 say that there was an offer of $10,000 581 00:28:36,350 --> 00:28:32,820 if someone admitted admitted this was a 582 00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:36,360 hook yes one of the main skeptics 583 00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:40,799 debunkers did make the offer of $10,000 584 00:28:47,210 --> 00:28:43,500 and there's a lot of documentation for 585 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:47,220 this for one thing a tape exists and but 586 00:28:55,549 --> 00:28:50,130 besides that the very first offering of 587 00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:55,559 the bribe was delivered by a local law 588 00:29:00,650 --> 00:28:58,080 enforcement officer who came to the door 589 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:00,660 of the crewmen to whom the offer was 590 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:04,890 made and this offer was pushed over 591 00:29:12,159 --> 00:29:09,090 quite a length of time and almost got 592 00:29:15,860 --> 00:29:12,169 him to make up a story just to get the 593 00:29:20,299 --> 00:29:15,870 $10,000 but you know he wound up not 594 00:29:21,950 --> 00:29:20,309 doing it because he you know look at the 595 00:29:26,570 --> 00:29:21,960 pressure that everyone's been under 596 00:29:29,180 --> 00:29:26,580 that's amazing and just if he had taken 597 00:29:31,130 --> 00:29:29,190 that money and done that that would have 598 00:29:33,530 --> 00:29:31,140 just squashed this whole thing well I 599 00:29:35,060 --> 00:29:33,540 don't know because you know I would have 600 00:29:37,730 --> 00:29:35,070 immediately challenged him to take a 601 00:29:39,530 --> 00:29:37,740 lie-detector test that this news story 602 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:39,540 that he was telling and he would have 603 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:42,330 been really stuck there because he would 604 00:29:47,690 --> 00:29:44,730 have had to either refuse to take it or 605 00:29:48,740 --> 00:29:47,700 take it in and fail he'd probably skip 606 00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:48,750 town with the time frame 607 00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:50,580 yeah that's the way that would have gone 608 00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:52,260 although you know it would have been 609 00:29:56,150 --> 00:29:53,760 sufficient for some people you know 610 00:29:58,039 --> 00:29:56,160 perhaps even though it was it wasn't 611 00:30:01,220 --> 00:29:58,049 widely known that he'd been offered the 612 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:01,230 ten thousand and that was even in my 613 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:06,090 first book that came out in 1977 but it 614 00:30:09,890 --> 00:30:08,610 doesn't take you know if people are 615 00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:09,900 desperate to have 616 00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:11,670 thing to hang their hat on something 617 00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:14,070 with which they can dismiss this the 618 00:30:18,410 --> 00:30:15,990 silliest explanations we talked about 619 00:30:20,270 --> 00:30:18,420 the hypnotist planning memories well 620 00:30:22,940 --> 00:30:20,280 there was also the theory that I had a 621 00:30:25,250 --> 00:30:22,950 transitory psychosis or or that I'd been 622 00:30:28,090 --> 00:30:25,260 hallucinating on drugs but you know what 623 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:28,100 all three of those hypnosis and the 624 00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:31,170 psychosis and the drug theory don't take 625 00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:33,600 into consideration is six other people 626 00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:36,390 having witnessed of a large part of what 627 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:39,270 happened so you know it's it's silly 628 00:30:44,990 --> 00:30:42,770 because you know 629 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:45,000 hallucinations are derangement of the 630 00:30:50,930 --> 00:30:47,730 mind and they just aren't something that 631 00:30:51,980 --> 00:30:50,940 affects seven people uniformly right so 632 00:30:53,570 --> 00:30:51,990 what is that been like 633 00:30:55,430 --> 00:30:53,580 all these years dealing with the 634 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:55,440 debunkers and skeptics is that been real 635 00:31:00,650 --> 00:30:57,570 disheartening it's been frustrating 636 00:31:03,950 --> 00:31:00,660 because you know they will go online and 637 00:31:06,860 --> 00:31:03,960 post stuff that I totally refuted a long 638 00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:06,870 time ago they know it's false but when I 639 00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:09,360 go on to their website and try to post 640 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:11,430 something to that effect 641 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:14,010 they won't allow me to post well they'll 642 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:16,050 allow other people who agree with them 643 00:31:21,610 --> 00:31:18,930 to post so they're propagandists there's 644 00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:21,620 me there blatantly lying to the public 645 00:31:27,140 --> 00:31:24,720 pretending that they're just putting out 646 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:27,150 information now when you're saying that 647 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:28,650 you can't post are you saying that you 648 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:30,330 post something and they remove it yeah 649 00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:32,610 they will not put it up I'll put it in 650 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:36,990 submit it and anyone glowin Wow and this 651 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:39,210 has happened and one or more more than 652 00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:43,770 one case yeah mm-hmm and what are you 653 00:31:48,170 --> 00:31:46,110 know before the internet what was the 654 00:31:51,170 --> 00:31:48,180 type of things you were dealing with 655 00:31:52,910 --> 00:31:51,180 with the debunkers and skeptics well you 656 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:52,920 know they would say oh they dig up any 657 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:55,050 kind of dirt they could you know anybody 658 00:31:59,480 --> 00:31:57,210 that had a bad words about me and my 659 00:32:01,850 --> 00:31:59,490 family or the crew or anything they were 660 00:32:03,650 --> 00:32:01,860 just without any checking oh that's got 661 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:03,660 to be true so we'll put that up and 662 00:32:09,890 --> 00:32:06,930 anything good said they would just not 663 00:32:11,540 --> 00:32:09,900 repeat it you know did calling of all 664 00:32:13,940 --> 00:32:11,550 the bars in town well he doesn't come in 665 00:32:15,860 --> 00:32:13,950 here okay we're not going to talk about 666 00:32:17,420 --> 00:32:15,870 that rather than saying we called the 667 00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:17,430 bars and he doesn't come in there 668 00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,380 you know how they said oh he comes in 669 00:32:23,690 --> 00:32:21,840 here and he's a big drunk and you know 670 00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:23,700 he's always making up crazy stories they 671 00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:24,990 would have just run with that 672 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:26,880 I told most people that would go through 673 00:32:31,220 --> 00:32:28,290 what you went through would probably 674 00:32:35,260 --> 00:32:31,230 turn to alcohol selective digging for 675 00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:35,270 dirt digging for dirt anything you know 676 00:32:43,370 --> 00:32:38,880 the implication being that of course a 677 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:43,380 genuine incident of this sort can only 678 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:48,090 happen to person with a perfect past and 679 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:51,330 a perfect record has nothing wrong in 680 00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:53,610 their life and who's that you know look 681 00:32:57,290 --> 00:32:55,380 at the look at the dirt they dig up on 682 00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:57,300 all the presidents there for the last 683 00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,240 six residents you know they always find 684 00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:02,640 something about them their opponents do 685 00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:06,120 so nobody's that perfect and it's just 686 00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:08,880 an absurd it's just a technique of 687 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:11,070 character assassination sure you know 688 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:13,410 you when you bring that up it makes me 689 00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:16,050 wonder what the legacy of this whole 690 00:33:20,510 --> 00:33:18,000 thing will be say when we're long gone 691 00:33:22,820 --> 00:33:20,520 fifty years from now do you ever wonder 692 00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:22,830 in that scope what things will be well 693 00:33:27,050 --> 00:33:24,720 I'll definitely have the last laugh 694 00:33:29,780 --> 00:33:27,060 because the truth always comes out in 695 00:33:34,340 --> 00:33:29,790 the end and the longer it goes the more 696 00:33:36,820 --> 00:33:34,350 their claims and their distortions of 697 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:36,830 the truths come back on them you know 698 00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:39,090 somebody that's continuing to put 699 00:33:44,270 --> 00:33:41,700 something out and the thing oh isn't 700 00:33:46,910 --> 00:33:44,280 true yeah 701 00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:46,920 now here's something I don't know if 702 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:48,360 anyone's ever asked you what do you feel 703 00:33:52,990 --> 00:33:50,730 about other people that claim they were 704 00:33:55,370 --> 00:33:53,000 abducted do you take it case-by-case 705 00:33:57,290 --> 00:33:55,380 it's definitely case by case I don't 706 00:33:58,820 --> 00:33:57,300 just say well this happened to me so 707 00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,830 anybody that ever claims then must be 708 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:00,960 telling the truth because you know 709 00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:03,210 although many people who are telling the 710 00:34:09,110 --> 00:34:06,000 truth still didn't have what a real 711 00:34:10,670 --> 00:34:09,120 event happened to them there's all kinds 712 00:34:12,290 --> 00:34:10,680 of what do you mean by that exactly in 713 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:12,300 other words there's all kinds of things 714 00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:14,610 other than exactly what they think 715 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:17,150 happened there's all kinds of 716 00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:19,450 misidentification 717 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:22,240 you know vivid dreams all those kinds of 718 00:34:26,850 --> 00:34:24,850 things but I'm not dismissing all claims 719 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:26,860 unto that I'm just saying some of them 720 00:34:31,230 --> 00:34:29,410 are that in some art and you know the 721 00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:31,240 skeptics are fond of pointing to 722 00:34:35,310 --> 00:34:33,520 something like a known hoax or something 723 00:34:36,780 --> 00:34:35,320 like that and saying see we prove this 724 00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:36,790 one so that means they're all that way 725 00:34:41,610 --> 00:34:39,460 right and you don't have to defend every 726 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:41,620 case to say that there's a reality here 727 00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:44,650 a core reality and there's very good 728 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:48,630 reports from very reliable people and 729 00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:52,330 those are the ones that prove that this 730 00:34:59,130 --> 00:34:56,110 is a real phenomenon the existence of 731 00:35:01,380 --> 00:34:59,140 you know misidentified objects and 732 00:35:02,730 --> 00:35:01,390 various other kinds of things doesn't 733 00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:02,740 prove anything 734 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:05,470 mm-hmm you know I've given the example 735 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:07,210 of you know you can prove that iron 736 00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:09,370 pyrite or fool's gold exists but that 737 00:35:14,610 --> 00:35:11,470 doesn't prove the gold doesn't exist and 738 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:14,620 and you know it's it's really along the 739 00:35:19,710 --> 00:35:17,770 same line of thinking yeah yeah well so 740 00:35:21,570 --> 00:35:19,720 this has been a absolutely great Travis 741 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:21,580 it's been a real pleasure talking to you 742 00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:24,490 today and I'm going to listen to you 743 00:35:28,860 --> 00:35:26,320 speak tonight at this conference and 744 00:35:31,140 --> 00:35:28,870 thanks so much for being on this show I 745 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:31,150 really do appreciate it well good to be 746 00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:33,490 on all right so this is Martin Willis